Just saw Alex’s knife thread and thought of this vid.

Hi Alex. I’m back online at home. Buddy gave me a laptop for recovery

been looking over the content on the various pages. I’m really liking the focus of it. No Hype. Feel I’ve learned alot about the system and the training. Good stuff

This vid is critical of the knife defenses in krav. Figure putting it up would allow a counter discussion. Like its not a no brainer being armed is an advantage.Happy 4th

mike

oops…forgot the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN6Ujdi4Lu0

Yeah, I’m responding to my own post LOL

Eskrima is all intereleted. So after looking at the above guro’s critique of the krav tech, take a look at this instructional from Pekiti Tirsia. Pekiti is kinda like the parent blade art. Very respected. Pay attention to around the 1:24 mark and see if you don’t see that darn little krav tech show up in there….SShhh don’t tell anyone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN7CydJqGRk

Hmmm, the defender in the first video doesn’t even do the KM technique correctly.  His arm is straight, no weight in the defense, he doesn’t bend over…  He also doesn’t really punch.  If he did, he would likely disrupt the flow of the attacker and then he would not stop there, but continue with further counters.

Of course, in the video, the attacker knows what kind of defense and counter is coming, giving him an advantage in defending.

Then again, if one had to fight a highly skilled knife fighter, of course it would be a lot harder.  Hopefully, though, the average thug on the street will not have that much experience, nor will he anticipate a strong defense and counter, giving the defender an element of surprise that he can then capitalize on.

Good to have you back, unstpabl!

Thanks GK

All valid points. Easy to attack things outta context. Also validating to see the defense in the tapping drill

Also a great way to see the counter to the defense. Its good to look thru others eyes

The discussion is totally valid, although the first video is a little silly.  As already noted, the defender doesn’t do a very good version of the defense. HOWEVER, the speaker is correct.  If your plan is to stab and slice back at the defending arm, then you have a good chance of cutting the defender.  The only thing I will say is this:  because we burst forward, we tend to reduce the damage of such a backward cut.  It doesn’t stop it, but because our arm is traveling in the same direction is that second cut (forward for us), the cut may not be as bad.

Also, I always find it amusing when experienced knife fighters respond to KM’s simple techniques by saying that they will just adjust their attack.  If they are that good at attacking, does that mean we should complicate our defenses? No, it means the opposite!  Keep it simple and aggressive, and get away as quickly as possible!

What was interesting to me, John, was the 2nd video, where they show the krav defense a few times in the tapping drill, albiet with a palm heel. FMA drills are really similar as like krav their conceptual not tech based. To me as an outsider to your system looking in it really validated your defense, which for some reason has always been a bone of contention to krav critics.

Anyway, I thought they were thought provoking vids and maybge would aid in getting the ball rolling on your forum which will be very successfull in the near future

Be Well

mike

Yes, I loved the post (and thanks for contributing to the forum!). I ALWAYS like seeing how our defenses work against the analysis of other systems.  I, too, noticed in the 2nd video how one of their simple solutions was very similar to ours.  This is one of the things I always say about Krav Maga is that, if people analyze the threat logically, and apply simple solutions, they will come up with techniques that are the same, as similar to, Krav Maga.

Yes, Mike, you always have some very interesting posts!

I suppose any defense can be defeated if the attacker knows what is coming, or if he is on alert.  For example, I could imagine that slicing the hand as shown in the video might be something a knife fighter would do in an actual knife vs knife fight, where he has to be a lot more cautious, as both people know they are in a fight and the opponent may be equally skilled and is armed as well.

However, in a self-defense situation, the assailant initiates a sudden attack to an unarmed person and thus would probably feel relatively secure about the success of his attack.  In that situation, even a skilled knife fighter might let down his guard a little, as he would not expect the unarmed person to be able to fight back.  If he should have any concerns at all about the victim fighting back, it would make more sense for him to distract the victim before stabbing him, or even sneak up from behind, rather than allowing him to see the attack and then get ready to defeat the victim’s presumed defensive move.

In the videos I posted, the attacks are all pretty straight forward, often stronger, wider attacks to start the assault, then, when the victim lies helpless and can’t fight back, the stabs seem to turn almost more into what looks like little pokes.  However, there didn’t seem to be any fancy moves.  Of course, anything can happen, but I would think that in the majority of the cases, KM defenses would work just fine.  And, even if you end up with a cut to your hand, it’s still better than being stabbed in the heart and you’ll have at least a chance to keep on fighting to save your life.  Much better than doing nothing.

Jujitsu guys say there’s always a counter. When working in slo-mo its easier to see.

i’ve been watching a lot of youtube this weeki and one thing I noticed in Most demo’s the defender moves way faster than the attack. Speed kills. Of course the defense works. Its all as kenpo calls it What ifs.

John and krav are right its got to be simple responses.

So many knifers train as if your going to be in a duel. In our society and John would know better than I, but its an ambush. Either the knife is never seen or used as a threat. Its doubtful, but not impossible both parties are armed. Krav from again my limited knowledge of it trains its students for that event. it drills the fundamentals of unarmed defense

i read the other day an article by Leo Gaje of Pekiti Tirsia kali. He said that he started his students empty hand vs the knife here because that was how attacks happen for the most part here. I found that intersting because it was the opposite of the little knife training I’ve done which had been mostly dueling and some tapping drills

I apologize for rambling, but krav to me is the fundamentals. I mean that respectfully. A student comes outta krav training with the fundamentals physically and emotionally. Its builds in an aggressive mindset not seen in most trainings. Its not complicated which makes it very practical.

On another board, I’m asking why train krav for cops, when so much of the job seems grapple related….I don’t knoww much about the Force training , but I do know this krav takes people who’ve never been in a fight before and trains them to engage and keep fighting no matter what. I know of no other commercially available program that really does that. Thats why you got critics, cause like the UFC/mma, you guys exposed gaps in the game What that krav instructor tell those guys on Fightquest ” you don’t know shit about self defense.

Sorry for the ramble

mike

John (Hallett) would have me doing burpees for a week if my knife defense looked like the first video. No weight in the defense and retreating…

**sigh***

I know what you mean on escrima and krav techique.  I used to train under Chuck Cadell, (Angel Cabales-Serrada Escrima) before having to move due to military commitment.  Had the honor of training with such Masters as Ted Lucay lucay, Dani Inosanto.  I trained with Chuck for 3 yrs and definitely see the similarities in footwork,  other than that not much else

Hey Newbie,

Burpees for a week would be getting off way to easy! Our Kids Krav Maga burst in harder then that guy. I love it when videos show a compliant demo partner (give ma at least one LIVE Demo), everything including Chris’s Ninja Style will work when the person doesn’t fight back.

John H.