Recently, we worked on hair grabs again.  Generally, I really like the KM response to these attacks, as they are virtually all the same, no matter where the attack is coming from:  Go with the pull (if there is one), block incoming punch or knee if necessary, then counter with punch and continue with combatives.  This is aggressive, works well and it’s easy to remember, as you basically defend in the same way every time.  Well, except for one instance:  That’s the situation where the attacker is right in front of the defender, grabs with one arm and does not pull.  When this happens, and only then, suddenly it’s a completely different technique.  Instead of going aggressively forward, disrupting his attack with immediate counters, one now smashes the attacker’s fingers against one’s own skull, isolating the wrist, then bending forward, walking backwards and kicking from an awkward bend over position.  Basically, a joint lock is attempted before any counters are made, even though the attacker was open for such counters much earlier.

This has always bugged me and here is why:  According to Hick’s Law, if you have two choices for a defense instead of just one, your response time will increase dramatically.  If it weren’t for this one hair grab from the front, this wouldn’t be a problem at all with these attacks, as the defenses are all identical.  All you need to remember if the attack comes on is to be ready to block and then move in aggressively with counters.  But then the static hair grab from the front technique causes students to hesitate:  They may want to counter, as in all of the other techniques, but now they have to stop themselves from doing so, instead trying to remember the joint lock.

Sure, if you are doing this right, it can stretch the attacker out and make him fall to the ground, which is nice, but it still leaves you in a very awkward position from which your vision is very limited.  All you can see are your own two feet and if there’s another attacker trying to tackle you, you probably won’t know until you are on the ground.  Also, to deliver a strong counter from that position, you may have to lift your body - or at least your head - back up slightly, which might cause you to ease up on the lock, allowing the attacker to escape, cover up, or even pull you to the ground before you ever deliver your first counter.  And what about closed quarters?  What if there’s a wall and furniture behind you and, while you can make the bow, you suddenly realize you can’t back up far enough to stretch out the attacker?  Or you may trip over something while walking back and end up on the ground, as your vision is so limited from that position, with your eyes off the attacker and the rest of your environment.

Also, people tend to make mistakes under stress, not isolating the wrist enough, walking back before they have completed the bow, bending their legs, pushing their hips too far back - all of which can lead to the failure of the joint lock, causing the attacker to bend over a little - but not go all the way down - and thus giving him a chance to keep on fighting, while the defender is trying to complete the lock without countering at all and with his eyes at least partially off the attacker and the punches he might try to throw.

The immediate counter is an important aspect of Krav Maga defenses and it seems that the static front hair grab is the only technique done in KM in which an immediate counter would be possible but is not made, in favor of a more complicated joint lock.  And, while the joint lock attempts to address the immediate danger of being pulled or punched, an aggressive counter should be able to do the same job, at least it does from a similar situation when the attacker is to the side and one actually has to turn in a lot more to get to him.  Still, from that position, moving in aggressively is the recommended technique.  And what if he is standing to the front, but at about a 45 angle to the defender?  Or right in front, but grabbing the hair more from the side?  In all of those situations, the defender might hesitate as to which technique to use if he has two choices and, as a result, might not do anything at all.  Yet, if he had only one choice, he could just go in and fight, without delay.

So, I guess what I’m saying is, why not eliminate this technique?  Or are there any compelling reasons to keep it?  Any thoughts?

Alex

That was a very thorough breakdown and assessment of hair grab from the front. You included inherit problems which was refreshing. Since it was so detailed, forgive me if I missed something. I will try to give you my thoughts, though I suspect John will have a better explanation.

While Krav is all about addressing the threat and being aggressive, there may be instances when you do not want to just starting attacking (i.e. drunk friend, etc) or want to escalate to higher order violence. This gives you an option. Also this position may be used for a control due to being able to maintain a straighter arm and being face to face. Trying to burst in when they are trying to hold you off may be difficult. Therefore, leading to this alternate technique. Conversely, if someone grabs the side or back, it would seem more likely they would be pulling for knee or immediate strike making the bursting in defense more obvious.

As far as kicking this technique out, I liken it to wrist grabs. That is a soft technique but the alternative is to punch everyone who grabs your wrist. We need to have options but I agree that they need to make sense be simple and just work.

Something to consider: dynamic attacks with take a dynamic defense that will transition from one thing to another and will not necessarily be pretty or elegant. A “static” attack can be dealt with using either dynamic or static defense. Obviously, we could front kick or punch from the hair grab from front but as soon as this happens they are going move and change this to a dynamic situation. Yes now it is a fight but since you are connected to them they could affect your strikes.

Finally, thing if this system is to work for all. Consider a small person versus a bigger person. They may not have the reach if they are unable to burst in.

I hope my thoughts were clear enough and somewhat compelling. Cannot wait to hear your thoughts.

Oh, cool, a response!! : )

Actually, you touched on the one thing I ended up being too lazy to mention, which is the use of this technique as a soft technique.  And, I agree, in case of a drunken friend etc, this may serve as an alternative and it would make sense to show it as such.  However, when we train in this, we are not usually shown this as a soft technique.  Instead, we take the attacker to the ground, then follow up with strong kicks to the head.  Or we do drills where the defender closes his eyes and hair grabs come from every direction.  The assumption in those cases is always that the attacker is aggressive/dangerous and thus strong combatives will be required to defeat him (instead of merely a wrist hold).

As far as the stiff arm is concerned, I AM a small person (5’1), but in most cases I think I could still sneak a punch in.  Upper cut could work great, preferably to the attacker’s right (if he is holding me with his right arm), since his face is not well covered on that side.  If I’m unable to reach with my punch, I feel I could still cover up and use a strong kick to the groin, a vulnerable target that is no longer available to me once I’m in the bent over position.  After the kick, the attacker would be likely to loosen up at least somewhat, so I would be able to get in deeper, if necessary.  We have also practiced the regular (bursting in) technique against an attacker holding you with a stiff arm from the side and in that case the defense is to turn in, cover and attack.  Of course, turning in when the attacker is to one’s side would take longer than when he’s already in front and would be potentially more dangerous if he intends to punch but still, since the bending over technique simply doesn’t work from that position, the recommended technique in that situation is still to burst in and throw combatives.  So, I’m thinking:  if it works from there, why not do it from the front also?

I guess the number one thing that bothers me about the bending over technique is the Hick’s Law situation:  If it weren’t for that one small instance out of the dozens of ways someone might grab your hair, hair grab techniques would be close to perfect in the sense that the response to the attack is basically always the same and it’s very Krav-like:  Go with the pull (if there is one), block if necessary, then counter strong.  Nothing really to think about, nothing complicated, just react and be aggressive.  In that it’s a simple, brilliant technique.  But the bending over technique ruins it, by introducing too much thought.  You are grabbed from the front and feel like going in just as you do in the other situations, but now you have to stop yourself and instead do something completely different, something that feels very unrelated.  I fear that it messes the defender up and might cause him to hesitate, instead of allowing him to simply react the same way he does in all of the other cases.

As for all kinds of people being able to perform the technique, there’s another problem with the bending over technique:  In order to perform the technique well, one has to be flexible enough to bend over pretty far.  If not, the wrist lock may not be strong enough.  But what about people, who simply can’t bend over that far?  Someone who is overweight, for example, or simply inflexible (I am very inflexible, which gives me a tendency to “cheat”, bending my legs or pushing my hips back, all of which makes the technique less effective).

And then there’s the thought that the bending over technique seems to be the only KM technique in which you deliberately take your eyes off the attacker, at least for a moment, while at the same time making it hard (and if you have long hair, virtually impossible) for yourself to see the environment around you.  This could be dangerous if there are other attackers.  It’s also the only technique I can think of that relies on a wrist lock before combatives are made, even though the attacker is open for counter punches much earlier.  In other words, there are a few other joint locks used in KM, for example bear hug from behind (taking finger), or full nelson (grabbing finger), but in those cases some counters are usually used first (foot stomps, hitting back of hand) and the locks are done because few other counters are available and aim to get you into a better, more stable position from which to then continue the fight.  In the hair grab technique, however, you end up in a somewhat awkward position and have missed your opportunity for strong counters earlier in the confrontation (groin kick or punches, for example).

Alex

I enjoyed the response and it was well thought out. I will try to keep my thoughts brief because I feel I am long winded.

I do agree with quite a bit that you have stated and now wonder if this is a fault in training. I mean, if someone is being aggressive doing ALL hairgrabs of course we need to meet this aggression with aggression whether this is in training or real world.

The flexibility and “fatness” could be an issue.
Also you did mentioned, we are not Krav-esque with this technique because we do not defend and counter simultaneously and we are relying on a wrist lock initially. Something did occur to me about being in live or dead side and position of advantage. For all of the other hair grabs you and being brought into the live side and position of disadvantage (pulled into knee or punch). But from the front you move your yourself into a position of disadvantage. If you are able to perform technique they would be in position of disadvantage.

Obviously, a multi attacker situation clears all bets. In that case you must be aggressive.

Finally this just may be one of those techniques that you learn for the system but is filed in the back of the toolbox. Krav does have a bunch of those techniques.

Good Training.

Don’t worry about being long-winded, it’s always good to have an interesting discussion.

I think it would make sense to keep the bending over technique in the system, as a soft technique and as a possible alternative, in case an attacker grabs with such a long, stiff arm that immediate counters would become difficult.  However, maybe one should let it be just that, an alternative, instead of making it a required technique that has to ALWAYS be done if the attacker grabs from the front, even if he IS open for more immediate counters.  That way, the students wouldn’t feel as though they have made a mistake if they are moving in deep with punches and other combatives during such an attack.

Alex

That sounds reasonable and I think this goes back to sometimes the way train turns into the technique. I think the default is probably just go combative, all the other stuff is gravy.

Yes, agreed!

hiiiiiiiiiii,

Bunkai: opponent aggresses from the front. grab arm and hold down with ... if that doesn’t work, try it on the other side. if he grabs your arm while ... if you need to up the severity of your response, grab hair and .... Push vs pull teaching ... Experimenting with empi techniques (elbow strikes)

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Tim121